华体会

The Chinese Communist Party鈥檚 economic warfare has granted it tremendous influence in American society, industry, and even government. Never was this more apparent than during the COVID-19 pandemic, when those who questioned the CCP鈥檚 conduct around the virus鈥攁nd potential role in creating it鈥攆aced accusations of hysteria, xenophobia, and fearmongering.

Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR) was one such voice. In his new book Seven Things You Can鈥檛 Say about China, he examines how the CCP threatens Americans鈥攆rom its unprecedented military buildup to its role in the fentanyl trade鈥攁nd how China uses its influence in media, academia, Wall Street, and Washington to silence critics.

Senator Cotton will join Hudson President and CEO John Walters to discuss the senator鈥檚 new book and why Communist China is America鈥檚 most dangerous enemy.

Episode Transcript

This transcription is automatically generated and edited lightly for accuracy. Please excuse any errors.

John Walters:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. I鈥檓 John Walters, president and CEO of 华体会. I鈥檓 pleased to have you with us, everybody who鈥檚 here, everybody who鈥檚 joining us virtually. There are copies of Senator Cotton鈥檚 book available and they鈥檙e free. So we鈥檙e not the government, but we can help educate and promote a better understanding of our threats. Hudson was founded by Herman Kahn, who famously wrote the book Thinking About The Unthinkable. Senator Cotton is here with us to speak the unspeakable with his important new book, Seven Things You Can鈥檛 Say About China. We have the book and the things up so that people will hopefully remember them. As most of you know, Senator Cotton is a patriot, a major national leader. Hudson honored him for his service to our country in 2023. He represents the people of Arkansas and he鈥檚 now chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and part of the Gang of Eight, the eight members of Congress who are most briefed on the highest level intelligence and the security matters of the United States.

He鈥檚 also a member of the Senate leadership as chairman of the Senate Republican Conference. As many of you know, he left law practice because of the September 11th attacks and joined the United States Army as an infantry officer. He served five years including two combat tours, and he served with the Old Guard in Arlington National Cemetery, which produced another book which I highly recommend that he wrote. His military decorations include the Bronze Star Combat Infantry Badge and Ranger Tab. He鈥檚 a longtime friend of Hudson. And I鈥檓 proud to say I have known Senator Cotton for over 10 years. We are grateful that he is here and want to say welcome Senator Cotton.

Senator Cotton:

Thank you, John.

John Walters:

I want to start with your title: Seven Things You Can鈥檛 Say About China. Why can鈥檛 we say these things? Is this something that Chinese communists have done to us or have we鈥檝e done this to ourselves?

Senator Cotton:

Yes. First off, John, thank you. And Hudson, thank you for hosting me again. Thank you all for being here. I鈥檓 sorry I was running momentarily behind. We had votes in the Senate. But I鈥檓 glad to be here with you to discuss tonight the Seven Things You Can鈥檛 Say About China and the threat that China poses to our nation. It鈥檚 not an abstract threat, it鈥檚 not a remote threat. It is a threat here today to our way of life, to you and to your family. Most public opinion polls show that Americans have a justly low opinion of communist China. But in my experience, and based on what I鈥檝e learned through more than 10 years in the Senate on the Armed Services Committee, on the Intelligence Committee, and now chairing the committee, is that however bad do you think Chinese communists are, however much of a danger you believe they are to our nation, it鈥檚 actually worse than that.

So this book is designed to ring an alarm bell about the threat we face. And I intentionally made it a small easy book to read so you can pick it up and read it on a flight or a couple nighttimes in bed or maybe on the subway back and forth over a couple of days at work. So you can be informed about the threat China poses to us and these seven things that you can鈥檛 say about China. Because so many times in our society if you try to criticize communist China, it鈥檚 not just Chinese communists, it鈥檚 American political opponents as well.

I start the book with an episode from about five years ago, five years ago last week I think, when I first said, 鈥淭his coronavirus that鈥檚 causing a global pandemic may have come from a lab in Wuhan.鈥� They studied bat-based corona viruses there. They鈥檙e notoriously sloppy in their safety practices. The lady that runs the lab is literally nicknamed the Bat Lady. Wuhan does not have indigenous bats. The food market there didn鈥檛 apparently have bats either. Maybe we should take a look at this lab. And again, I think most people would not be surprised that the Chinese Embassy or Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs came down me like a ton of bricks, as I detail in the book. So did The Washington Post and The New York Times and CNN and others. And I think there鈥檚 a lot of reasons for that. Some of it鈥檚 probably political correctness or political ideology. But as I describe in the book, China has amassed tremendous influence and power in our society, in part because of the economic wealth and power we鈥檝e helped them build up.

The third thing you can鈥檛 say about China that China鈥檚 waging in economic world war. They have been for decades. We just finally joined it about eight years ago. But we helped build up in one of the great strategic mistakes in American history, our foremost competitor. It鈥檚 obvious at the end of the Cold War with communist Russia passing from the scene, that communist China was the one country that had the potential to become a true competitor to the United States. And we built them up economically. That didn鈥檛 just pay for the military that they鈥檙e building up since they鈥檙e preparing for war, as I say in chapter two. But it also gave them tremendous influence in this country because so many people have gotten rich off of China. So many people and so many businesses are still deeply invested in China. And China has an incredible amount of leverage over them.

So one example I use is Hollywood. When was the last time you saw a movie with a Chinese villain? And the answer is it鈥檚 been a very long time, at least since 1997 with Seven Years in Tibet and Brad Pitt. Which again, China came down on like a ton of bricks, on him, on the other actors, on the studio. And Hollywood movie executives got the picture very quickly that if you had a movie that put China in an unflattering light or told the story of something like Tibet and the Dalai Lama or today the Uyghur genocide or the crackdown in Hong Kong, you would lose your access to the very large and lucrative Chinese movie market. So the most popular American cultural art form, movies, never disparaged China.

And I also point out in the book that every major news network in America, except Fox News now, is owned by or affiliated with one of those Hollywood movie studios. Do you really think it鈥檚 a coincidence that Fox has the most critical reporting on China as opposed to, say, ABC, which is owned by Disney, which released a movie a couple of years ago where they actually thank some of the government authorities in Xinjiang province that are partly responsible for the genocide against the Uyghur people. Or NBC and MSNBC with Comcast Universal, CNN with Warner Brothers, CBS with Paramount.

And you can just trace that throughout our society, throughout corporate America and Wall Street. There鈥檚 a hotel not far up the street, luxury hotel across the street from the White House. And the week that President Trump is trying to conclude the so-called phase one trade deal with China, the chief negotiator summoned a lot of Wall Street execs to that hotel and asked them to lobby the White House, to lobby their contacts there, to lobby the president to make the deal on more favorable terms. Again, and you can see everywhere, I write about how China targets our governments. Again, they don鈥檛 just target government here. It鈥檚 not just spies running out of the embassy in old-fashioned Cold War style. They are trying to cultivate state and local officials. Well, how are they doing that? Well, one, it can provide them some immediate economic benefits in a concrete sense, tax breaks, subsidies, land grants, what have you. But two, it can also provide de facto lobbyists, state and local officials who are chasing after Chinese money and job announcements, might tell their congressman, their senator, 鈥淐an you tone it down a little bit?鈥�

Not about the factory we鈥檙e trying to get in our hometown, but tone it down a little bit about Hong Kong. Because they鈥檙e being encouraged to do so. I mean, it is true of pandas at your zoo. You don鈥檛 get a panda at your zoo with no strings attached to it. There鈥檚 always a string attached to it with communist China, and that鈥檚 one reason why there are so many voices in America that are silenced or at least sometimes censor themselves about communist China.

John Walters:

You talk about this happening to you with regard to Arkansas and the Chinese dangling investments in Arkansas to get the governor to approach.

Senator Cotton:

Yeah, there鈥檚 supposedly a big paper mill. It was going to be open in South Arkansas. I was always pretty skeptical of it. It started under Democratic governor, it went to a Republican governor. He encouraged me on several occasions to meet with officials from the Chinese consulate in Houston. I politely deflected a couple times. Finally, I just said flatly like, 鈥淟ook, when I鈥檓 in Arkansas, when we鈥檙e not in session, on the weekends and the recesses and I鈥檓 in Arkansas, I spend my time meeting with Arkansans, not with Chinese communists. If they want to meet with me, they鈥檝e got an embassy right up the street and they can come in and meet with me and I鈥檓 willing to do that.鈥� And he said, 鈥淲ell, the consulate in Houston is what manages Chinese investment in Arkansas.鈥� At which point I was like, 鈥淎bsolutely not I鈥檓 going to meet with them.鈥� Because that was clearly an effort to try to influence me and my views on China by having dangled this big super project out for years and years and years. I was always confident that it would probably come a cropper, as it did.

And then some short time after that, President Trump in 2020 closed the Chinese consulate in Houston. And if you recall, there was billowing plumes of black smoke for hours on end as they did burn something. I鈥檓 sure that was more than just the trash, because Secretary of State Pompeo referred to that consulate as a den of spies, and that鈥檚 exactly what it was.

John Walters:

I want to ask you about the structure of the things you can鈥檛 say, whether there鈥檚 a central truth that requiring everyone else to lie protects. Do the lies protect a central truth or is there some other structure, because you鈥檝e thought about these things more detail, I guess, is there a profound and deeper truth that we have to be worried about?

Senator Cotton:

Well, the first thing I say you can鈥檛 say about China, it鈥檚 not often said, is that China is an evil empire. And I know that gives some peoples the vapors and sends them to the fainting couch. That鈥檚 an obvious reference to Ronald Reagan calling communist Russia an evil empire in 1983, which also gave people the vapors and sent them to the fainting couch, especially here in Washington. But I think it鈥檚 vital that you understand the nature of a regime if you want to understand what makes it tick, why it does what it does, why it poses a threat or might be an ally, whether you can get it to change or to not change. And I lay out in great detail in the first chapter that it鈥檚 still communist China. Xi Jinping is a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist thinker. He wants to replace, he wants the next generation of leaders to be referred to as Marxist-Leninist-Xiist, I guess. But there is no doubt that China has never changed its spots.

And you can see this in the rhetoric of its leaders. Yeah, they do things like say, 鈥淗ide your strength and bide your time,鈥� as Deng Xiaoping did. But remember what the point of that is. It鈥檚 to allow China to grow rich and therefore to go strong. They talk about using market-based tools for socialist ends. I mean, they鈥檙e much better at managing a modern economy than Soviet Russia ever was. In part because we have taught them how to do so with our professional class. And European professional classes have taught them how to do so. But they are still at root Marxist-Leninists, and that鈥檚 why, for instance, they鈥檙e committing a genocide against the Uyghur people. That鈥檚 why they committed one that still goes on to this day against Tibetans. Massive territories in their hinterlands that provides all kinds of strategic depth in other assets that they will not allow a small religious and ethnic minority to control. That鈥檚 why they persecute Christians. Many people are surprised to know that China is one of the largest Christian nations in the world, by some measures up to 100 million Christians. And you either have to register with the state that monitors you, like they monitor everyone, or you take the risk if you鈥檙e not registered, of having your small private church demolished, of being arrested, of being tortured, of being disappeared. The Falun Gong was a harmless spiritual movement based in Buddhism. You鈥檙e probably familiar with them mostly doing yoga and breathing exercises on the mall or in a public park near you. One small, tiny protest in the late 1990s led to a massive and vicious violent crackdown on them, because Chinese communists were terrified that any kind of entity organization, association, had grown outside of the Chinese Communist Party. And to this day, they鈥檙e still oppressed. China broke its promises naturally, which is what it does, to the United Kingdom about Hong Kong. Supposed to have 50 years of autonomy and freedom in Hong Kong. Got less than half of that by 2020. And they鈥檇 been trying to do it since almost the handover in 1997.

Brave Hong Kongers had protested enough to make the cost too high, but under the cover of the coronavirus, they did. And then I move on in the second chapter to talk about the bloody history of Chinese aggression. Miles Yu, your friend, has said that no country on earth has invaded or attacked its neighbors more often than communist China has, which is absolutely true. Absolutely true going back to 1949. There鈥檚 barely a country on its periphery that has not been attacked or affronted by Communist China. So I think it鈥檚 very important that you understand what the nature of regime, is if you try to understand what it does to its own people. Most importantly for us here in America, what it aspires to do to America and to an American-led world order.

John Walters:

Yeah, it鈥檚 actually shocking. Because some of this, I, of course knew from the work of my research team here at Hudson and reading and being attention to this. But when you go through it in detail in a systematic way, it鈥檚 also shocking that it鈥檚 not on our mind. It鈥檚 not on our mind when we think about the threat from China. It鈥檚 not on our mind when we think about their danger.

Senator Cotton:

And I鈥檒l confess. As I was working on the book a year ago when I was working on that first chapter, it just reminded us like, 鈥淢an, they are really evil.鈥� I work on this stuff all the time in Congress, but oftentimes, when you鈥檙e in Congress and you鈥檙e doing the day-to-day things, you鈥檙e worried about this provocation against Taiwan or this demand on the trade front or what have you need to step back and again and think of why it is they do what they do. And it is a evil to totalitarian regime. And I write in there that it鈥檚 a techno-totalitarian regime. It鈥檚 probably more so than any country has ever been. Certainly, more control over its own people than communist Russia ever had. Maybe more than Orwell could have imagined. He said that, 鈥淭yranny was a boot stomping on the human face forever.鈥� I think in communist China, you might amend or add to that a smartphone app monitoring the human face forever.

John Walters:

One of the other things that you go through systematically is the infiltration of America, for those of us old enough like me to remember the Cold War and Soviet subversion. It never reached these levels. The level that you talk about with regard to the government, with our society, with our children. Can you say a little bit about that? People haven鈥檛-

Senator Cotton:

We talked about that a little bit earlier, and the reason it never got to that level with communist Russia is we didn鈥檛 have the degree of economic entanglement. Our two blocs were largely separate. There was some trade here and there. But nothing like what we have with China. And therefore, as I said, you have many, many people and many companies that are dependent upon China, over which China has tremendous leverage. And China uses that leverage. Another example I write about in the book is professional sports. In the case of the NBA in particular, one of the most popular sports in China, and its biggest overseas market. If you remember about five or six years ago, the general manager of the Houston Rockets merely posted an image saying, 鈥淵ou should stand with Hong Kongers fighting for their freedom.鈥� And China came down like a ton of bricks again.

It took all the merchandise out of their stores. It took down NBA streaming on their services. LeBron James and Steve Kerr, Hall of Fame player and coach, who are very prominent and outspoken when it comes to social justice warriors, criticized the general manager for saying that. Basically, saying that he should have thought about how much money it could cost the NBA and other players. The CEO of the Brooklyn Nets also expressed solidarity. And surprisingly enough, he was out of his job just couple months later. Owned by Joe Tsai, one of the co-founders of Alibaba and a well-known Chinese communist apologist. Thinking about Enes Kanter Freedom who first came to fame, aside from his basketball ability, for standing up for the plight of Turks in his native Turkey. But then later began to stand up for Hong Kongers and Uyghurs and so forth, by wearing symbols or words on his shoes.

Pretty soon, he was cut from his team and he thinks, and I agree, blacklisted from the NBA. So it鈥檚 just again, an example of the kind of power and influence that the way we鈥檝e helped communist China grow wealthy, has reverberated back into our country, in a way that you never had with Soviet Russia. Sure, they ran spies out in their embassy all the time, and they underwrote in various ways like the nuclear freeze movement in the first Reagan administration. And China does that too. Don鈥檛 get me wrong. China鈥檚 still running spies all over Washington and out of its consulates and stuff. But on the scale of something like we鈥檝e never seen because of the economic ties. It doesn鈥檛 just have spies in Washington as consulates. They鈥檙e in major companies, they鈥檙e on our university campuses, they鈥檙e in our national labs. In addition to all the indirect influence it has throughout our society.

John Walters:

Can you say a little bit more about the targeting of children?

Senator Cotton:

Sure. One example of that is TikTok. And TikTok is a communist spy app. I understand there鈥檚 lots of people that use it. Some of you may use it. I would recommend you don鈥檛, but I understand that some of you do. Plenty of our candidates do as well. And I hear the voices that say, 鈥淲ell, it鈥檚 just another social media app. And is it Facebook and X and Snapchat? They鈥檙e all bad too, right?鈥� And sure they have their issues. The difference is that TikTok is under the thumb of communist China. It has to answer through its parent company, ByteDance, to communist China. So your data privacy is at risk. I get it. People say, 鈥淲ell, they鈥檙e just kids. Who cares about their data privacy?鈥� Well, there are a lot of adults on TikTok as well. But those kids pretty quickly become adults themselves, and they go into fields like law enforcement and the military and intelligence and sensitive industrial posts. And that data is forever. It can be sensitive and it can be used to blackmail or get leverage over a person.

I also hear people say, 鈥淲ell, it鈥檚 just ... The content is harmless.鈥� So I agree. There鈥檚 plenty of harmless content on TikTok is on other social media apps, cat videos or how-to videos about cooking or home repair or fantasy football, or what have you. But there鈥檚 a lot of harmful content as well. Go look at the evidence that had been produced by state attorneys, general, of both parties and their lawsuits against TikTok. You get a new TikTok app, you tell TikTok you鈥檙e a teenage girl. You don鈥檛 ever watch a single video. You don鈥檛 state a single preference. It will start to feed you eventually content about your body image, negative content. It鈥檒l start to feed you content about eating disorders. Tell it you鈥檙e a teenage boy. Same thing. Don鈥檛 watch any videos. Don鈥檛 express any preferences. It鈥檒l start feeding you the most obscene kinds of pornography, the most graphic kinds of violence. For anyone.

It will glamorize drug use. It鈥檒l even glamorize suicide. It鈥檒l even glamorize suicide if you tell TikTok that you are sad or depressive and you want something uplifting. And there are stories in that book about kids who have watched those videos and then killed themselves, to include in [inaudible 00:21:31]. That鈥檚 much worse. Much worse by orders of magnitude than anything you can see on any other social media app. And finally, it鈥檚 a tool of Chinese communist propaganda as well. Again, go on X, go on Facebook, go on Snapchat. Compare what you can learn there about say, Tiananmen Square or Taiwan or the Uyghurs or Tibet, to what you can learn on TikTok, which is nothing. There are stories about this in the news recently because of the new DeepSeek AI search engine, about ... Type in Tiananmen Square, and it鈥檒l tell you that it can鈥檛 say anything about that.

If it鈥檚 happening with DeepSeek, of course, it鈥檚 happening with TikTok and it鈥檚 algorithm. Compare anti-Semitic content. By orders of magnitude, there is more anti-Semitic content or pro-Hamas content on TikTok than there is on any other app. And think about what happened last year when Congress was considering the law that requires ByteDance to divest TikTok if it鈥檚 going to continue operating here. They sent push notices to their users, asking them to push this button to contact their member of Congress, and ask us to vote against it. That is not a spontaneous uprising of American citizens exercising their First Amendment rights. That is a Chinese communist influence operation. A lot of kids did, and they threatened to kill house members, or they threatened to kill themselves if the bill passed. If they can do it for that, they can do it for the next time Donald Trump wants to impose a higher tariff on China, or the next time there鈥檚 a moment of great tension over Taiwan.

So the difference between TikTok and all those other apps is that it鈥檚 under the thumb of the Chinese Communist Party. That鈥檚 just one way I write about how they鈥檙e coming for our kids. Another one is what I call the reverse opium war. Many of you probably remember the Opium War from your high school history classes. In the mid 19th century, wars between China and European powers about whether China was going to open up for sale of opium and other disputes about trade. China lost those wars and had to make humiliating concessions. They still refer to it as their century of humiliation, and that鈥檚 what they largely date it back to. Well, China鈥檚 running a reverse opium war against the United States now, and has been for many years, as if American teenagers today are responsible for what European nations did almost 200 years ago.

It鈥檚 not new by the way. During World War II, in the final days of Chinese Civil War, Mao鈥檚 party made a substantial part of its revenue running dope as well. So they鈥檝e been doing this for a long time. But for years, China was producing fentanyl, sending it to Mexico, which was smuggling it into our country. One of the few successes we鈥檝e had with China on this front was in President Trump鈥檚 first term, they got China to stop making the fentanyl and sending it to Mexico. But what did they do? They immediately started mass-producing in excessive capacity the precursors, the ingredients for fentanyl. And they send those chemicals to Mexico so the cartels can mix the fentanyl themselves. They even send pill presses for them to make the pills. And China sometimes claims that they can鈥檛 stop this. They鈥檙e not aware of it.

Remember, it鈥檚 a techno-totalitarian police state. It knows everything that鈥檚 going on within its borders. Of course, they could stop it if they wanted to because they don鈥檛 because they view it as a point of leverage and strategic advantage, that tens of thousands of Americans are still dying every year from fentanyl poison. It鈥檚 something that takes up the time of the president and the Congress and local officials. Something therefore, that time that we鈥檙e not spending on other issues related to China. There鈥檚 no doubt that the Chinese Communist Party is one of the number one causes of death for young Americans in this country.

John Walters:

Yeah. I was going to ask you one more question about that, because we鈥檝e talked about this before, and the use of the Mexican cartels by the Chinese Communist government. Mike Gallagher, who鈥檚 now distinguished fellow here with us, when he chaired the select committee in the house, their team produced the documentary evidence that showed that on Chinese websites and in Chinese records on those websites, the government was subsidizing the sending of these chemicals. It wasn鈥檛 that they couldn鈥檛 stop it, we don鈥檛 know where it is. They gave them VAT rebates. They allowed them to reduce and ship chemicals that were illegal inside China. On the periphery you might say, 鈥淥kay, how far do you want to go?鈥� But when tens of thousands of people are dying, when they鈥檙e money laundering on the backside of the other part of this, why isn鈥檛 that an act of war? Why don鈥檛 we see that as an act of war?

Senator Cotton:

Well, I think it鈥檚 something both against China, but also their cartel intermediaries that we should get much tougher on. And I expect the Trump administration will. They started to get much tougher on it in the final year or two of the first term. I expect they will now as well. But again, I mean Mike and that committee is right, and I draw on some of that work in the book. China knows all this. They鈥檙e not like the United States where the government doesn鈥檛 see into every company and doesn鈥檛 have the ability to ascertain what鈥檚 going on. They know this. Over half the world鈥檚 surveillance cameras are in China, even though China only has about a sixth of the world鈥檚 population. Fifth. And they claim that they can identify the face of any Chinese subject in a matter of seconds anywhere in the country.

And they don鈥檛 know that these companies... Because again, they鈥檙e not like small fly-by-night operations. These are large major concerns that have a lot of other legitimate... And fentanyl has legitimate purposes for pain management under the care of a licensed doctor. So do all these ingredients. So do all the other chemicals they make. They know as the House Committee demonstrated what these companies are up to and they are supporting it through the vast array of techniques that I write about in chapter three about how they鈥檙e waging economic world war through subsidies, through tax rebates, through other kinds of state support for these companies. They know exactly what鈥檚 happening.

John Walters:

I鈥檒l have you make some comments about the final of the seven things, and that is that China can win. I mean, if anything, that may be the most frightening. The other things are terrible, you could push back, that this is not just a low-grade conflict or harassment of America. This is an intentional effort to win in the struggle to control the world between freedom and tyranny.

Senator Cotton:

Well, of course, China could win, just like Russia could have won in the Cold War. I mean, it鈥檚 easy to look back historically and think that something was foreordained, but nothing is foreordained. I don鈥檛 believe, and I know you don鈥檛, most of you don鈥檛 in grand historical forces or history with the capital H that are kind of immovable by human choice. Everything in the end comes down to choice with some degree of fortune or luck, good or bad, mixed in, individual choices in each of our lives or collective choices we make in organizations in our country or as a nation as a whole. And it鈥檚 a choice whether we won or lost the Cold War. And in 1979, I estimate a lot of people thought we were on the losing side of it. There are serious strategists like Bill Roode in 1979 who thought NATO needed to start preparing for a cantonment strategy, a strategy to rapidly withdraw from its eastern front and establish Norway and Great Britain and Spain as cantonments and lodgements to fight back against a victorious Soviet invasion of the rest of Western Europe.

We collectively decided that we were going to elect Ronald Reagan and we got Pope John Paul II and Great Britain got Margaret Thatcher and a lot of other decisions we made, and that鈥檚 what helped us win the Cold War. We could have lost. We can lose to China. If we do, it鈥檒l probably be over Taiwan. I understand a lot of people think, 鈥淲hy is Taiwan so important? It鈥檚 just a tiny little island. It鈥檚 so close to them. It鈥檚 so far from us. They have some disputed and spurious historical claims to it.鈥� And you could say, 鈥淭hey rolled into Hong Kong, they rolled into Tibet. They鈥檝e done this before and it didn鈥檛 cause China to supplant America as the world鈥檚 dominant economic military superpower.鈥� But Taiwan鈥檚 different and these times are different than what China was in the 1950s, for instance. China is again a near peer in economic power and rapidly closing the gap on military power and by far, the world鈥檚 largest military, second most technologically advanced military, and they鈥檙e still gaining on us.

Taiwan too is different from those other places. As Douglas MacArthur said at the start of the Korean War, it is the unsinkable aircraft carrier and submarine tender off the coast of mainland China. He also said it would be a disaster of utmost importance if Taiwan fell into the hands of a hostile power. Namely, then as now, Communist China. Geography is the most important part of foreign policy because it鈥檚 the part that never changes. Taiwan is still that unsinkable aircraft carrier and submarine tender off the coast of mainland China. It is still the linchpin in the so-called first island chain of Japan and Taiwan and the Philippines and all down that currently acts as something of an obstacle to Communist Chinese ambitions. With Taiwan in hand, it would be a springboard.

It still sits like a cork at the top of the South China Sea, one of the most important waterways for global trade to include... For our global trade. Add to that though, there鈥檚 a massive economic dimension to it as well. Taiwan produces more than 60 percent of the world鈥檚 semiconductors, more than 90 percent of the world鈥檚 advanced semiconductors. So it鈥檚 an even greater importance to us and to American power and world peace now than it was when Douglas MacArthur observed those things in 1950. If China went for the jugular in Taiwan, no matter the outcome, it would probably mean an immediate global depression, contraction of global economies by more than 10 percent as the United States and China and our partners largely cut off trade with each other. Stock market crashes, life savings wiped out, mass unemployment in the United States, empty shelves. Semiconductors are in almost everything. The phones in your pocket, televisions, appliances, vehicles, tractors, everything. Manufacturing capacity will almost certainly be destroyed.

And it鈥檚 not like oil. If you鈥檙e having a war in one place that has a lot of oil, you can ask the other place to pump a lot. This is a highly, highly bespoke manufactured product. We鈥檝e tried to make them here. We haven鈥檛 done a great job over the last few years. So that capacity would be destroyed or maybe even worse, if China could seize the island and keep them intact, it would then have the leverage over us and the rest of the world. And if China did succeed... That鈥檚 all what would happen regardless of the outcome. But if China did succeed, then you鈥檇 see a series of cascading consequences. You鈥檇 probably see most countries on China鈥檚 periphery begin to distance themselves from the United States and to begin to accommodate Communist China to a much greater degree. Those nations that could would also probably go nuclear, Japan, South Korea, Australia, go around to South Asia, India and Pakistan would expand their nuclear arsenals.

Iran would feel empowered to rush it and break out. Arab nations would do the same. So being able to keep nuclear weapons really limited for the last 80 years, those efforts would totally break down. China would continue with its efforts with greater justification to tell everyone around the world, 鈥淎merica is the weak horse. America is the declining power. We鈥檙e the strong horse. We鈥檙e the rising power. You should support us. You should be more like us. Don鈥檛 go with the flawed American model of market-based democratic capitalism. Go with our model.鈥� And ultimately... This is not a secret. This is what Chinese officials told President Trump鈥檚 delegation in 2017. I write about it in the book as does H.R. McMaster in his book, as does Matt Pottinger, they were there, that they will see America is what Henry Kissinger called an island on the edge of the world.

We would be. We鈥檙e over here in the new world, we鈥檙e by ourselves, something like 4 percent of the world鈥檚 population and 6 percent of its land mass, a quarter of its economy now but that would decline pretty quickly. As they told President Trump鈥檚 delegation, they see America in the long term as a low-cost commodity provider to China because we have a lot of oil and gas and we have a lot of arable farmland that we can produce at low cost. And if we don鈥檛 like that and we don鈥檛 dance to their tune, well, they can get their farm products from Latin America and they can get their oil from the Middle East and from Russia. So you鈥檇 see a gradual weathering and decline of American power and American prosperity if China were to succeed in an invasion and annexation of Taiwan.

Of course, like I said, given that you鈥檇 have a global depression if they start it at all, the only way to win in a conflict over Taiwan is for it to never start in the first place. And that鈥檚 why we have to be strong and resolute and we have to help Taiwan get stronger as well to deter that conflict from ever happening in the first place.

John Walters:

This is a book that also could be titled Wake Up. You talk about the things you can鈥檛 say, but the impact of this is... The suppression of these thoughts or these truths means that you don鈥檛 prepare, that you allow this to continue. And I wondered whether there isn鈥檛 a thing that we can鈥檛 say about China, which is that we must find a way to undermine, weaken, and change the Chinese communist regime. We don鈥檛 want to talk about regime change. We have a history. We have baggage. People are immune. They get very twitchy on stuff like this. But what you have is a dedicated, powerful adversary that is finding every weak spot to go into and weaken the United States and its allies, of course. So I wonder whether the cumulative effect of your Seven Things You Can鈥檛 Say About China and Wake Up is, 鈥淟ook, we need a strategy that really does take on the magnitude of the threat that we face that we have not had in the past.鈥�

Senator Cotton:

Yeah, and like I said, that鈥檚 the reason... The main reason I wrote the book is because I wanted to ring the alarm bell and I wanted to kind of grab our fellow Americans by the lapels. I wish I was able to write a book like this 10 or 15 years ago when the magnitude of the threat was not as severe as it is today. And it is very clear that Communist China has studied what happened to Communist Russia in the 1980s until it disintegrated in 1991, and they are very adamant that they鈥檙e not going to allow that to happen in Communist China. That鈥檚 one reason why a few months before the fall of the Berlin Wall, Peng was behind the crackdown in Tiananmen Square.

They were not going to allow even the slightest hint of the loosened reigns that you saw behind the Iron Curtain in the late 1980s come to China. That鈥檚 one of the reason why they built this techno-totalitarian police state. It鈥檚 reasonable for us to be afraid of Communist China. Communist China is afraid of its own people because they are, as I say at the end of the book, the first and the worst victims of the Chinese Communist Party. And they will be as long as there鈥檚 communist rule in Beijing.

John Walters:

And you point out they spend more money actually suppressing internal dissent than they do-?

Senator Cotton:

For all the money they鈥檝e spent... A thousand percent increase in their defense spending since the turn of the century. More than a thousand percent. They still spend more money controlling their own people than they do on their military.

John Walters:

I think we have time for a couple minutes of questions. Senator鈥檚 kind enough to stay for a few minutes after that and sign books for those of you that would like him to do so. But before I start the questions, I鈥檇 like to ask you to join me and congratulate him. There鈥檚 just been an embargo...

John Walters:

An embargo release that shows that this book, Seven Things You Can鈥檛 Say About China is now become number one on the New York Times bestseller list. So, congratulations. We鈥檒l take a couple of questions so that we can have a microphone somewhere. Right? Okay. Why don鈥檛 we start here and here. Okay.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for coming. I remember in the 1990s, conservatives were having meetings about thinking normalizing trade with China would open up the human rights. I never did figure out why they thought that, and they were obviously wrong. My question is how much of the problems we see now do you think was from making that decision, and should it be reversed, the normalization of trade? And second, there are people, increasingly isolationists actually, who think China is evil and they are waging economic war, so much so that we should only focus on that, and totally ignore other areas of the world like Ukraine, and I was wondering if you could comment on that.

Senator Cotton:

Yeah, so in the first, I think granting China permanent most-favored nation status was one of the worst mistakes we鈥檝e ever made in our history. As I said, broadly helping make China wealthy and building their economy鈥檚 the worst, one of the worst strategic mistakes America has ever made, and it was foreseeable as well. I mean you could have decided in the 90... You could have seen in the 1990s, and specifically after the Soviet Union finally broke into its constituent parts, that China was the only country that could pose a genuine threat to us in terms of our way of life and replacing us. The only that could fill the gap that the disintegration of the Soviet Union had posed. Obviously we have threats from Iran, especially if it goes nuclear. We have threats from North Korea because it is nuclear, but that China was going to be the real potential threat.

And a lot of people forget this. Bill Clinton campaigned as a China hawk, to crack down on China in part because of Tenement Square, which happened while President Bush 41 was in office, in part because he said that President Bush was not doing enough to get tough on China鈥檚 economic warfare manipulating its currency, subsidizing its companies, giving them tax breaks, or Chinese theft and manipulation of our companies.

As is often the case with China though, and was the case until eight years ago when President Trump was elected, president Clinton flip-flopped after about a year in office. He did not want to give them permanent most-favored nation status, he then said we would. And it took a while, back in those days, we were giving the most-favored nation status one year at a time, and it was always a pitched battle up in Congress. I wasn鈥檛 here that far ago-

John Walters:

I was.

Senator Cotton:

... but I鈥檝e talked to people who were here-

John Walters:

I鈥檓 older.

Senator Cotton:

... and I... It was a pitched battle, mostly corporate America lined up on one side, and a lot of conservative activists, a lot of religious activists on the other side, and giving them most-favored, permanent most-favored nation status, which is what allowed them to get into the World Trade Organization under President Bush 43鈥檚 watch, created what鈥檚 known as the China shock. And that鈥檚 the supercharging of the loss of not just jobs or factories, but entire companies and industries from America to China, because as soon as they had the permanent status, corporate America knew they could ship all of that to China, and not have to worry about some congressional yahoos, in their mind, revoking it the next year if China committed some atrocity like Tiananmen Square again. So I think it was a grave mistake. I鈥檝e long sponsored legislation to repeal it. I used to sponsor it with now Secretary Rubio when he was in the Senate. I sponsor it now with Senator Hawley and a few others.

To your second question, I don鈥檛 think we can neglect any part of the world, because China doesn鈥檛 neglect any part of the world. To include our own backyard, as the president has pointed out about Panama. We have Chinese companies supported by the Chinese government operating on both ends of the Panama Canal. Or in the Middle East where you have China building one of its first overseas bases, conveniently enough just down the street from our base in the Horn of Africa. Or propping up the Iranian regime by cheating on sanctions and buying cut-rate Iranian oil. So if we want to confront China, just like we wanted to confront communist Russia, we have to understand that they are challenging and pushing on us and our friends and our interests all around the world.

John Walters:

This young lady here.

Speaker 2:

Senator, good to see you. My question is, you talked about China cultivating US officials about the enormous leverage that the PRC has over Hollywood, over companies that are invested in China, and the danger that that kind of influence poses to American public opinion, to lawmakers even on Capitol Hill. And I鈥檓 wondering if you could explain for us why you鈥檙e not concerned about the influence of Elon Musk, whose Tesla is obviously deeply engaged in China, who certainly doesn鈥檛 say any of these seven things, having the ear of the President of the United States, being present often in the Oval Office, and in cabinet meetings. Are you concerned about that influence, and why or why not?

Senator Cotton:

Yeah, I mean I think it鈥檚 unfortunate that Tesla has such large operations in China, just like so much of corporate America. I mean it really is the story of corporate America over the last 30 years. You could add in there Coca-Cola, and Ford, and Caterpillar, and Apple, and any other number of companies as well. I鈥檇 like to see all of those companies come back to the United States, or at least to the greatest extent possible get out of China, or at least limit their exposure to China as a sole or limited source provider.

As far as Mr. Musk鈥檚 role in advising President Trump, he is the advisor, Donald Trump is the decider, and I鈥檓 pretty confident there are plenty of voices that reflect my views on China, to include me advising the president, like Secretary Rubio and like Peter Navarro, and others. But the president does deserve credit for what he did eight years ago, which is actually and finally upend the conventional wisdom on China, going back decades. That if we simply cooperated with China, if we economically integrated with China and help them grow wealthy, they would grow more moderate. They would stop oppressing their own people and committing genocide, and they would stop threatening the United States.

I guess you could maybe think that that theory was sound in the 1990s, but too many politicians in both parties, both parties passed permanent most-favored nation status in the 1990s, believed it for way too long. Even when you had presidents like President Clinton or President Obama who campaigned against their opponents as China hawks, then flip-flopped once they got into office. Donald Trump didn鈥檛 do that eight years ago. And he actually changed the conventional wisdom, and what I鈥檇 say is largely a bipartisan foreign policy now, the test of a durable foreign policy like you had with Truman in the early days of the Cold War, a policy that Dwight Eisenhower largely carried.

Not to say that we don鈥檛 have our disagreements between the parties on this, that, or the other specific matter related to China, or that I agree with every single thing the president has ever done about China. Of course, I don鈥檛 agree with every single thing that anyone has ever done, but President Trump deserves credit for actually changing American foreign policy in a durable way on China.

John Walters:

Yeah, I agree with you entirely. It鈥檚 an amazing bipartisan change, and in a time when there was a lot of division, but it鈥檚 also was a global change. All of a sudden our allies and everybody else came along too and said, 鈥淥h my gosh, you鈥檙e right. This is a鈥�-

Senator Cotton:

Yeah, in ways in big and small, and the trade flows, or work that the State Department and the UN delegation did in the first Trump administration, fighting back against China and international organizations, making sure that Chinese communists were not going to be elected to leadership positions in UN agencies and organizations. There was a time, it was that close, imagine that China was going to be the leader of the World Intellectual Property Organization. Imagine that. I mean, it鈥檚 like when Cuba or Syria gets on the UN Human Rights Council.

John Walters:

Yeah, it鈥檚 amazing. Okay, we鈥檒l take one more question. Ma鈥檃m, go ahead. Wait for the microphone so we can all hear you.

Speaker 3:

Hi, Senator Cotton, I鈥檓 pleased to meet you. My name is Janet Bates. I live in Alexandria. I just wanted to ask you if we want to defend Taiwan, and I think it鈥檚 very important that we do, shouldn鈥檛 we also be concentrating heavily on stopping the harassment of the Philippines that goes on? They have to-

Senator Cotton:

Yes, we should. I mean, Philippines is even in some ways a more compelling case. It鈥檚 not as consequential as Taiwan, as Eisenhower said, but we are a treaty ally with the Philippines. We are treaty-bound to defend them, to include some of their outlying islands that China harasses, which are now unfortunately within short missile range of Chinese militarized islands that they have built up in the South China Sea. These are places that were just rocky outcroppings with maybe a few shrubs on them 10 or 15 years ago, and now they鈥檙e major military post with runways capable of handling the largest bombers.

They鈥檝e got radars, they鈥檝e got air defense and missile defense systems. They鈥檝e got barracks, they鈥檝e got swimming pools on them, all designed to give China control of the South China Sea and to limit the US Navy鈥檚 power projection in the South China Sea. And much of that is happening within short range missiles now of the Philippines鈥� outlying islands, and also its main islands.

And the Philippines have been a good partner in this. They鈥檝e especially been a good partner recently in helping us prepare to deter Taiwan because again, the only way that you can succeed in a conflict over Taiwan is not to fight it in the first place. And we need allies like the Philippines, like Japan, like Australia, to help us deter that conflict from happening in the first place.

John Walters:

Well, I鈥檓 going to leave some time for the Senator to sign some books for some of you, but first I want to thank him again for not only being with us here... And for all he has done for us as Americans and for our allies. Thank you.

Senator Cotton:

Thank you, John. Appreciate it.